host: worst week in washington. when you make a public threat, you had better be able to back it up. guest: the washington wizards ended up losing by ridiculous amounts to several teams, but this was a monumental embarrassment to the speaker. host: i want to make sure i get the total -- the title of this book correct, because i did not get it right a few weeks ago. how much does the government spends, and how much is $16 trillion? the size of the current debt? guest: revenues will be about $2.80 trillion, and the deficit will be about $1 trillion for fiscal 2013, and that assumes that some of the fiscal cliff does not happen and we do not reduce the deficit. national debt, about $16 trillion. the debt held by the public, what would you say, about $13 trillion? that is not the debt held by the social security trust fund and some of the other trust funds. it is not unprecedented. we have had it several times before. we talked about it last week. it is not the nominal size of the debt. it is self us to the debt is grow